Nathan Natas

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Posts by Nathan Natas

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  20

  New light what is it...cos I'm confused??

  by Fractured~Mind in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  ok this is the biggest problem i have ...well one of...and that's the governing body's stance on "new light".

  to me its like a dimmer light , whatever subject you have the light on, starting with the lowest setting you can make out the basics.

  when the dial is turned up slowly to the brightest setting, you then have the whole, complete,picture...but you don't have a whole new subject matter in front of you.. so i can understand them starting with the basics then later on slowly revealing more and more as it is revealed to them...but i dont understand starting with one idea and completely changing that idea over and over again.. and if the light is not that bright on a subject, isnt it common sense to keep your big trap shut until your sure or the light is brighter, so you don't stumble millions of people in the process??.

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  Nathan Natas

  It is swamp gas - nothing to get too excited about.
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  6

  Size of Heaven

  by watersprout in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im husband to watersprout, we will just call me carrot for now,.

  i read this in a terry pratchett book the other day and it made me smile so i thought i would share it.

  " few religions are definite about the size of heaven, but on planet earth the book of revelation (ch.xxi,v.16) gives it as a cube 12,000 furlongs on a side.

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  Nathan Natas

  The size of heaven is best determined from your hat size.
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  14

  Help me learn - please

  by akelly in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello, i am a nursing student studying religions.

  would you please help me by answering a few questions?

  (1) what is your spiritual perspective on healing?.

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  Nathan Natas

  Titus asked, "Nazis? Are you OK, Nathan?"

  Sehr gut, danke. und Ihnen?

  You might get out your Radionics machine and test again my statement, Titus. I didn't say that JWs were Nazis, flying saucer cultists or schizophenics. I made a comparison of the worn out WATCHTOWER "fairness plea" to the same argument being used by other wack-job groups.

  JWs say, "Don't listen to our critics; listen to our carefully massaged PR pages on our website, where we use weasel-wordsand obfuscate the issues."

  Well, American Nazis, flying-saucer cultists and schizophrenics can make a similar "fairness plea," and making the comparison as I did show just how lame the JW "fairness plea" is.

  As an EX-JW, I encourage EVERYONE to consider ALL the evidence. Read the historical record of failed Watchtower prophecies, experience firsthand their way the WTB&TS practices revisionist history. People leave The WATCHTOWER for many reasons, most of them GOOD REASONS.

  Get to know the TRUTH, the whole TRUTH, and nothing but the TRUTH!

  Guten tag, Titus!
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  14

  Help me learn - please

  by akelly in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello, i am a nursing student studying religions.

  would you please help me by answering a few questions?

  (1) what is your spiritual perspective on healing?.

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  Nathan Natas

  People like TITUS above will tell you that the "enemies" of Jehovah's Witnesses are unreliable sources of information.

  This is not unlike saying that for the TRUTH about NAZIS, one should only consult with NAZIS and disregard the opinions of the allied powers that defeated the NAZIS, or for the truth about FLYING SAUCER CULTS one should only speak to abductees. Certainly one would not rely on a schizophrenic for a definition of objective reality.

  Like the NAZIS, FLYING SAUCER CULTS and schizophrenics, the WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY is not what it wants you to think it is.

  The WATCHTOWER is directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people each year because of its "medical theology" regarding blood transfusions. As former JWs, we OPPOSE this unnecessarily harmful doctrine as EVIL. It is a perversion of anything the Bible actually teaches.

  For much more discussion of this subject, consult the website at http://www.ajwrb.org/.
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  14

  Help me learn - please

  by akelly in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello, i am a nursing student studying religions.

  would you please help me by answering a few questions?

  (1) what is your spiritual perspective on healing?.

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  Nathan Natas

  Hi Alicia,

  As LisaBObeesa explained above, most of us here are EX-Jehovah's Witnesses. so, we can tell you both what we believed when we were JWs and what we believe now. There is a vast diversity in our religious and non-religious ideas now that we are no longer JWs.

  You asked:

  (1) What is your spiritual perspective on healing?

  As a JW, I believed that sickness and death were part of our "inheritance" from the sin of our original father and mother, Adam and Eve. Unlike some Adventist groups, JWs do not shun medical treatment entirely (AS A GROUP - some individuals might), but they also show a preference for some of the more "fringy" medical treatments. This comes from the influence of one of the leaders in the WATCHTOWER organization who was the editor of the WATCHTOWR publication titled "The GOLDEN AGE," a fellow named Clayton J. Woodworth, who hated medical doctors and embraced such devices as the electronic radio biola, the curative value of radium water, a fear of vaccination, etc. It was out of Woodworth's doctrine against vaccination that the WATCHTOWER's opposition to blood transfusion was born, but the person directly responsible for the WATCHTOWER medical doctrine opposing blood transfusion is a fellow named Gene Smalley. The most notorious and harmful anti-medical teaching of the Jehovah's Witnesses (the WATCHTOWER) is their opposition to blood transfusions. For a few years at the end of the 20th century they also opposed organ transplants, but that position has been reversed.

  Today as a EX-JW I am an atheist and seek the best, most appropriate and most rational medical treatment for any condition that I may be confronted with, and I rule out NOTHING because of so-called "bible-based" reasons. I also do not believe in the "healing value" of prayer or other religious gesticulations. I do believe in the placebo effect, however.
  
  (2) What are the critical components of healing, such as prayer, meditation, belief, etc?

  As a JW, the only really important thing about medical treatment was that it had no blood in it. JWs do not organize formal prayer groups for sick people because they feel that is an inappropriate use of prayer. JWs do not practice meditation because they believe that opens the mind up to influence by demons.

  As an EX-JW, my greatest considerations are the skill and knowledge of my medical providers along with a positive expectation and a sense of humor. Also important is medical insurance. Personally I know that we all die sooner or later and that although I might prefer it to be later, I have little say in the matter. I do not fear death, which I know is simple non-existence.
  
  (3) What is important to people of your particular faith when cared for by health care providers whose spiritual beliefs differ from their own?

  >>If<< a JW was a medical provider - which is unlikely because it requires higher education and the WATCHTOWER in generally opposed to higher education - the "medical treatment" would likely be quakery or fringey. If a real MD became a JW, they would face conflicts over the use of blood products and blood derived treatments.

  I am sure that any atheist medical practitioner would be concerned only with what worked best for the patient and not be concerned with third-party superstitions.

  (4) How do you, as a patient view health care providers who are able to let go of their own beliefs in the interest of the beliefs and practices of the patient?

  A JW would appreciate any doctor who was willing to entertain their fantasies in leiu of providing the best medical treatment.

  As an atheist, I appreciate doctors who are willing to set aside their persanal convictions to provide the best medical treatment available.
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  8

  JW opinions on gay adoption

  by serenitynow! in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the whole prop 8 thing reminded me of a conversation i had with my aunt a couple of years ago- when i was inactive but mentally still a jw.

  there was a "sister" who died young leaving her 4 daughters orphaned between the ages of 5-11 approximately.

  my aunt was telling me the story, telling me that the kids' aunt & uncle in my aunt's kh went ahead and took the kids in.

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  Nathan Natas

  Serenitynow asked, "how can anyone possibly justify not wanting to have gay people adopt kids?"

  JWs consider homosexuality a sinful and disgusting practice and would view any child adopted by a gay couple to be a child in moral peril.
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  8

  Has Anyone Heard from garybuss (Gary Busselman)??

  by AudeSapere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  has anyone heard from garybuss (gary busselman) lately???.

  it's been over a year since his last post.. i always enjoyed his comments and hope he is well.. does anyone keep in contact with him?.

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  Nathan Natas

  Gary is OK.

  He's been completely occupied with pressing personal concerns for the past year. (Nothing life threatening.)

  I think that when these issues are settled he will return and tell us about it.

  DISCLAIMER: I am not an official spokesperson for Gary Busselman, but he is one of my friends.
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  17

  If you like EGGPLANT, what is your favorite recipe?

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i could think of no more pressing question to raise at this time.. remember: the fate of millions may rest in your hands!.

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  Nathan Natas

  I could think of no more pressing question to raise at this time.

  Remember: the fate of MILLIONS may rest in your hands!
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  38

  Elders Who Saw Me Say I've Changed & I'm No Longer "Arrogant"

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i met an elder a few months ago at a local convenience store and the word is out that i am no longer "arrogant" .

  good to know, huh?.

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  Nathan Natas

  "Minimus, come out to plaaaaayyyyy"

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u05Qot_yh9c

  You're our favorite li'l red dot; yes you are!
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  33

  What Do JWs Think About Dinosaurs?

  by Cold Steel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've seen evangelical sites that show dinosaurs dying in the great flood.

  these people believe that god created the earth in seven 24-hour days, and have wondered that if god could just "speak" the earth into existence, why he would need the other six days.

  (couldn't he just will it into existence in a flash?).

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  Nathan Natas

  Archaeopteryx of a feather flock together. Most JWs would recognize dinosaurs as kin.